Welcome to the Purpose Pinwheel Podcast

Purpose that lives only on your website — a badge here, a tree planted there — isn't purpose. It's a tick box. 

In this introduction to The Purpose Pinwheel Podcast, co-hosts Erica Mackay (marketing strategist, The Marketing Detective Agency) and Becks Neale (brand purpose strategist, The Brand Naturalist) explain why they built the show and the framework behind it: the Purpose Pinwheel, six spokes — People, Planet, Processes, Policies, Profit and Performance — spinning around a central Purpose, driving toward real, lasting restoration.

Erica and Becks share how the idea grew out of years of comparing notes on purpose-led clients whose values never quite made it past a single page, and why articulating purpose is a process, not a perfect first draft. They talk candidly about their own backgrounds, what purpose means to each of them, and who's coming on the show — solopreneurs, SMEs, community groups and collaborators, all bringing honest, hopeful, down-to-earth stories of courage, challenge and creativity.

If you're a purpose-led business owner tired of good intentions that don't go deep enough, this one's for you. Subscribe now

The Purpose Pinwheel Podcast is co-hosted by Erica Mackay (The Marketing Detective Agency) and Becks Neale (The Brand Naturalist, Inkshed Ltd).

Follow the show: [thepurposepinwheelpodcast.com] | LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/purpose-pinwheel-podcast | YouTube: @PurposePinwheelPodcast

Want to be a guest? Get in touch at guests@thepurposepinwheelpodcast.com

Transcript

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Intro: [00:00:00] The Purpose Pinwheel Podcast, turning purpose into your strategic differentiator. 

Becks Neale: Hello. Good to see you again, Erica. 

Erica Mackay: How are you doing? 

Becks Neale: Really well, thank you. How about you? 

Erica Mackay: Yes very well.

So Becks, I thought we should introduce our podcast to people before we kick it off. 

Becks Neale: Definitely ... 

Erica Mackay: it's The Purpose Pinwheel Podcast. Do you want to talk about why Purpose Pinwheel? Where does that come from? 

Becks Neale: The Purpose Pinwheel, it just came from discussions that we've been having, like for a long time just about purpose and how we can really simplify it down into some kind of model that would be easy to understand exactly how purpose is integrated into businesses.

'Cause the challenge at the moment is that purpose is often just words only on a website or it's very much siloed in terms [00:01:00] of the department which is responsible for it so we really wanted to show how it actually, it needs to be completely integrated and if you start with it in the very center of the pinwheel, then that's gonna just ripple out.

So we're trying to simplify it into how many sections there are as well, and the pinwheel just seemed like the perfect analogy for it. So you've got a model which is very much got a childlike essence to it from the pinwheel 'cause it's made from paper and a stick. But everything revolves around the center, which is the purpose, so around the pin.

So this is your pinpoint. So that just keeps everything going and it's got the momentum when everything is all pulling in the same direction. So we've got six different spokes on the pinwheel. So the first one is people, and then we've got planet, processes, policies, profit and performance.

But as I say, once everything is all lined up and it's all going around the same direction, you've got that sense of momentum, that re-energizing and also [00:02:00] the restoration side of it as well, which is really important and I think purpose and, things that we're wanting to make a difference in the world so that everybody's thriving, the wellbeing of the planet, wellbeing of people, it all needs to be in that so that nothing gets left behind or missed out and it doesn't become just a nice to have or, is not dropped at the first moment that there's sign of challenge or too busy.

There's not enough time to do things. It's making sure that it's really a central force for your business 

Erica Mackay: Absolutely. And it just so happened, you and I have been friends for a very long time. But so happened, we've both been working with clients that are just missing something in terms of where they are.

They are, purpose-led clients. They have a purpose, but it just seems to stop somewhere, it doesn't trickle all the way through their business. It could just be a line on a website, as you said earlier, or sometimes it was just [00:03:00] an odd, "We will plant a tree," at the end, which didn't connect with anything else that was happening.

And for me, that's what it was we were sharing these stories with each other and our frustration, and I think we're both at such different places in our purpose journey, I think you're quite centered on your purpose. You know where that is and where that's landing, and I'm developing I know what I want it to be, but I haven't quite got it there. So I think between us, we're also a good match- ... for people we want to talk to, 

Becks Neale: definitely. I think part of that challenge is articulating it, and I think that's just something that does evolve over time.

If you start off with, just something, it doesn't have to be perfect, but if you just get something down in words to start with that you can start playing around with, and you can let it mull over, and it develops over time, the more that you are working towards it and the more that you see the impact sort of taking effect, and then you can start honing it and developing further.

And I think that's one of the problems is this whole perfectionism, isn't it? Where we just feel like we can't share anything until we've got it absolutely nailed [00:04:00] and put it out there. So actually, this is part of the whole Purpose Pinwheel journey as well is just helping other people share their stories, where they're at.

As I say, people are on very different stages, but it's all really important. Every action that we can take together is gonna make just such a difference to the futures of everybody and everyone that you care about as well. So it's, a really important piece of work. 

Erica Mackay: Absolutely. And touching on that, what does purpose mean to you, Becks?

Becks Neale: It's very much about, for me meaning. It has to have a meaning, a personal connection and a commitment, I think is a nice way to sum it up. So it's something that is non-negotiable for you as well. 

So it's just something that really guides you in your decision-making.

And that's something that I really try and, help the clients through as well. So with doing the brand design and brand strategy, it's really starting with a purpose, even if it can't be completely nailed in, that very first instance where we're looking at it. But that actually helps develop the entire brand identity the voice of the [00:05:00] brand, just all the characteristics as well.

It starts identifying this whole ecosystem and persona. And once you've got that and it really aligns and you just see that kind of light bulb moment for the clients, it's when you know that's the right thing, they're fully aligned with it, it's something that they can then fully step into.

It gives them that sort of confidence and the courage to go out there, show what they stand for and as well as attracting other people who share the same values. So it's a really key piece and it's fundamental and central to my work that I do as well, and it's just now helping people to take it further, so it's, much more integrated.

Erica Mackay: And I think the same for me in my work, so I'm helping people with their marketing strategy. A lot of it's aligned about who's your ideal client, and so many people go, "Oh, everyone's my client," and again, when you have a purpose- is it everyone?

Are there not some people that you just won't connect with, that they will actively hurt your business by being part of it- because their values don't align, as you said, or something's [00:06:00] off or they're using child labor or something that doesn't align with you. So being really clear on what that is helps with your entire strategy,

in terms of your marketing tactics what will you and won't you do? What's an okay thing? And I've had- really interesting conversations which are in progress. AI, for example, is one of those in progress conversations, in terms of where it sits on the good and the bad side,

 But that's what makes our work, so exciting, is these are conversations. They're not a list of rules. It's not a, blanket- it's guiding, in terms of what feels good. And ending up with a good result for the planet and everyone in it.

Becks Neale: The sort of analogy that I like to use for it actually is a bit like if you take a look at a farmer, they have to be available 24/7. They can't just switch off. They can't stop what they're doing. They've got [00:07:00] animal welfare that they've got to make sure is looked after.

They've got the land to look after. They've got to work with the seasons, no matter what's being thrown at them. And it's like with your purpose, it should be there 24/7 for you, and it's- ... you can't live one life in your brand and then a completely separate one in your personal life.

If you can find that real personal connection there, it's something that you're gonna be living and breathing, and it's gonna just emulate from there and radiate out, and I think that's a nice way of thinking about it. And our farmers are the champions that we need as well to bring the better planet around, so it's, a really nice synergy there, that we're all working together to make the better future.

Erica Mackay: I think that's really cool. And so the guests that we plan to have on our show, 

Becks Neale: from so many different backgrounds different industries. We've got people ranging from solopreneurs through to SMEs community groups and organizations, collaborators.

So we've got a really nice host of [00:08:00] different guests coming up, and as we said, they're all gonna be at different stages of their journey. But what I know we're gonna get is really honest and heartening, hopeful conversations. Really about where they're at. And it's people who inspire us.

Yeah, definitely. And then there's gonna be all these stories of courage, conviction. Hopefully talking to them about challenges as well 'cause that's gonna come with every journey that we need to overcome, and the creativity to overcome those challenges and take up on the new opportunities as well as collaboration which is what you and I are doing with it as well, which is a really good thing to work together as well.

And I think again that helps to stave off that siloed effect as well because you- people are working together, they're sharing resources. It's not duplicating work up, it's bringing things together to make the most and most powerful. So yeah, so I think we're gonna actually hear and feel purpose- 

Erica Mackay: Yeah

Becks Neale: Through these stories, in an everyday down-to-earth language, so really authentic. And then actually I think it's [00:09:00] gonna all reveal through these words the actual innate role of purpose as well. So you've got that whole guiding factor that purpose gives to a business. The re-energizing we spoke about, so it's gonna pick you up when there are those really challenging times to keep on going that sort of conviction to keep going.

As well as the momentum, so once you're going and it's like for you and me, every time we catch up, we get so excited about the different topics. And yeah, you can't stop us from talking then, so we're off. I think that's gonna be what's gonna come through from a lot of the stories.

Very excited to introduce them. 

Erica Mackay: And for our listeners, you will also be inspired. You're gonna hear some- down-to-earth stories, what's the reality? And ideas that, for me some of the ideas have blown my mind. It's not something I would ever have considered, but when I hear it I'm like, "Oh wow, that's so awesome."

And so hopefully you will also be hearing that. Give you some ideas- to take into your business, 

Becks Neale: it'll be really good. So what are your hopes for the Purpose Pinwheel podcast? [00:10:00] 

Erica Mackay: Yeah I think my hopes are just that. I hope people get inspired like I'm inspired. I'm inspired by you every time we talk.

I'm inspired- by every guest we meet. And what I love is over the last year before we've even started thinking about the podcast is every time we meet we're both like, "Oh, I heard this week," or, "I saw this week." It's happening all around us.

And I have met clients like this where it just feels too much, changing the world feels too huge. "Who am I? This small drop in the ocean. I'm not gonna make any difference." But if we're all playing our part, if we're all doing our little piece, it has to have a roll-on effect.

If we all sit and do nothing- that has an effect, so why don't we all rather do something? So that's my hope. I hope people listening to this who are maybe worrying about it or have, and I suppose where I've been is have this- feeling that what we're doing is not enough, that we [00:11:00] want more.

We're doing good in our businesses- ... we're contributing, but it just feels disjointed, and getting it aligned and actually understanding where you're sitting, if that helps people do that, ah, that's a win for me. What about you? 

Becks Neale: Yeah. It sounds perfect. Yeah, all of that, I think.

And also the opportunity to change systems, and processes, and frameworks

So I think, as I said before it does get siloed off to one department, when actually it's the role of everybody in the business. It's, very similar to marketing roles, isn't it, where it's all lumped under one head, but it's just one department doing it, or even with sustainability where it's down to one person.

It actually, all of those roles need to be across everybody. Everyone's got a responsibility there. And brands for me just hold this really significant space and a responsibility to make a difference. So I think if we [00:12:00] can actually reach more people through the podcast, like beyond our networks, it's helping to get beyond that silo effect.

Yeah. It's helping to share those stories of hope the things that are working for people the actions, And good news, right? ... it's all gonna be really integrated. Really, yeah, good news. We need so much more good news sort of being spread around. 

Erica Mackay: We definitely 

need 

good news. 

Becks Neale: Yeah. So just really want to see people living and breathing their purpose.

Erica Mackay: And both of us, we're quite convinced about the fact that purpose has to be more than a line on your website, and with your branding background and design background and my strategy background and implementation background, we've seen from both sides where it just gets parked Either it's a- I don't know, a B Corp badge that you earned, and then it's plonked there, and that's the end of it. Or- ... you put a statement on your website- ... or, you join one of these many companies out there who help you donate, plant a tree or anything like [00:13:00] that, but not even thinking.

And I think what the big wake-up for me was when I went to a webinar where they said that not all the planted tree places are good for the environment, that some of them are- ... planting the wrong kind of tree, and actually it's bad for the environment. So you have to do your homework you can't just trust- oh, I will send you money, and you're gonna do the right thing. 'Cause I've thought planting a tree must be good, right? Must be good. But actually- Yeah ... you could be planting- We 

Becks Neale: definitely need more trees, but yeah. Needs to 

be done the 

right way.

That is bad because it'll kill off everything else, 

but planting it at the right time and the maintenance afterwards, making sure that it's got everything it needs, especially in the first few years to fully establish is really important for all the trees.

So yeah, they're absolutely really good. We need more of them. We definitely need more for the shade and to start cooling things down. But as you say, it's just finding the right avenues that are gonna help communicate your purpose more rather than it just being a sticking plaster, 'Cause you feel like you're doing the right things, but you just want it to go [00:14:00] deeper, just a little bit deeper. But 

Erica Mackay: with tick box, none of our guests are gonna be tick box guys we'll have done their homework. No. No tick box people. 

Becks Neale: Definitely. It is really important. I think there are so many different initiatives as well, aren't there, that you can use and accreditations that you can work towards. But as you say, it's important that it doesn't just be the means to an end, that it's actually like with the B Corp or for, the just different chartered accreditations that you can get.

I think, you've got to keep going beyond that. It's a great way to visually show what you stand for and to have some evidence of saying, that you are applying and complying with all of these. But it's got to go on more than just like a shout-out once in a blue moon sort of thing 'cause you've achieved it.

But it's just got to be integrated into your processes and everything that's going on, which is where the Pinwheel will come in to help people to realize how everything sort of slots together as well. 

Erica Mackay: I suppose the question our listeners may be asking themselves is, [00:15:00] who are we?

Why us? Do you want to introduce yourself, Becks? 

Becks Neale: We actually challenged each other to try and describe what we did and why as if we were explaining it to a six-year-old. And I think actually it's a really useful exercise for our listeners to do as well, just because it helps you to hone in what the sort of impacts are.

So in those lines it's helping people who are using their work to do good, or want to do good through their work to draw their ideas into life for people, planet, and places. So that's my sort of simplified version of what I do. But it's all about, the brand purpose strategy and how that then gets communicated through your brand.

So this has gone beyond the six-year-old speak now, but just to help people feel really aligned so that their brand is something that they can step into. It feels like them, it gives them that confidence to, put their name out there, show what they're doing and show that they believe in themselves as well and that other people should too because, they're gonna be aligning with the values and everything.

And I think that's something that's really powerful [00:16:00] 'cause as soon as I see those moments spark with the clients, it's just when you know that it's there. And then their excitement as well to take that out into the world. And actually when I was talking to you about how we'd explain it as if for a six-year-old that whole concept of drawing ideas into life is actually something a client said to me last week, is "I can't wait to see this all come to life."

So that is sort of the big impact. How about for you? 

Erica Mackay: So yeah, my big title I suppose is marketing strategy. I've been doing that for many years. To explain what I do, and this is an interesting dinner table talk at my house because my kids think marketing is evil and people can see that, right?

Because the common belief is marketing is to convince you to buy something you don't want. But I really help people find the clients who want, need, and can afford them. And so it's pull marketing that I love. I don't like the chasing marketing, and that's what I [00:17:00] help people do- is find the clients who want, need, and can afford them, and that's how I would explain it. And marketing strategy is the baseline. So many companies do tactics doing Facebook or LinkedIn or any- ... that's tactics. But if you start with a strategy of who your audience is, and this is the same with your purpose,

who is your audience? What do they want? And especially in purpose-led organizations because these new generations coming in are so much more aligned to purpose. They're pushing so much harder. I do mentoring for young people, and interesting head space shift for me so I think a lot of, the changes in the world and a lot of what's driving purpose is this new generation seems to be much more aware and awake to- the impact on the broader world, right? Not just my little [00:18:00] space. Which is fascinating. I've heard of youngsters turning down- ... big paychecks because they didn't believe in the company. Even staffing now- yeah ... is gonna be guided by your purpose.

Becks Neale: It's like for the brand as well, an organisation hold that space where people can come in and also fulfill their own personal purpose as part of the bigger purpose. It's like everybody's got their role to play as part of this purpose, but the ultimate one we're all striving to create together is this better world that everyone's gonna thrive in and yeah, guess it's trying to keep hold of that vision when things do get tough as well as to what you can do to work towards it.

And just touching back on what you're saying with marketing as well being a bad thing. I think obviously from both of us with the skillsets, yes, there is that element in the history of where it was, selling people stuff that they just really didn't need and getting them to buy more than they needed, but actually the skills that we're needing or the change that we're needing now is the sort of behaviors, the habits.

So if we can inspire, those [00:19:00] little actions that people can take, that's good marketing. That's the job done then, so that's where it all ripples out, isn't it? Beyond I say, yes, I

think that's really key. And I know we've both done, the carbon literacy training as well, so- 

That is quite scary in itself doing it. There was, just the reality of where things are at, I think it was quite horrific. And the first sort of days it was like, "Oh my goodness, am I gonna be able to go back for the second day of the training?"

'Cause it was just quite depressing. But then you started, hearing those stories of hope the things that are taking place that you just don't hear about in the mainstream. So again, going back to the Purpose Pinwheel podcast, that's what we're hoping to help bring more to the forefront and share more of those stories of hope.

And I think that storytelling is important because our media- ... is so full of negativity, there's so much... And even anything on climate change, it's just negative, right? It's just so doom and gloom, end of the world kind [00:20:00] of stuff.

Erica Mackay: And actually, there's so much good, pockets of good happening all over, and if we can bring that to the fore to help inspire more people, that would make me very, very happy. 'Cause I get inspired- Yeah ... every time I meet someone doing something awesome, whether it's- ... for people or planet or just, you know, anything that they're doing, it just inspires me to try harder. 

Becks Neale: Yeah. Definitely. And it's that wanting to get involved, isn't it, as well? So it's just, like you say, those stories are really powerful, and the words are really powerful as well. I think it's really key that we find the right words as well and not make it too industry specific

Too opposing, so that people really understand what the meaning is behind the words that we're using. Think a good example is with the extreme heat we've been having. I know that a lot of people were saying about the heatwave and referencing it like that. But actually to some people, heatwave is a positive thing because it's like, "Oh, it's no more rain.

Whereas actually looking at the temperatures and seeing how it was [00:21:00] across, the last five, I don't know, five decades. So it's just so extreme seeing the heat maps and seeing how much of the world actually now is in, in the red. So yeah, I think we just have to be really careful with the words in our storytelling just so that people understand actually the seriousness of it.

Whilst it's lovely seeing the sun, it has got such big impacts to everybody's wellbeing the people as well as the wildlife. So we just need as many people as we can really finding, their purpose and start trailblazing with it making their own paths and finding the innovations to bring that to the forefront.

Erica Mackay: We actually had a hedgehog rescue the other night. Found a hedgehog who was really struggling in the heat. So took it off to the hedgehog rescue center and found out- it had ticks as well, shame, and was dehydrated. But saved a hedgehog, so it's little things.

Yeah. I think, this is a hedgehog- that's [00:22:00] been visiting our garden a few times. We've seen him in our garden a few times, but this is the first time we felt worried about him. Maybe he needs a bit of 

Becks Neale: support. Yeah, so we've got a regular sort of visitor in our garden as well.

A hedgehog, so I've got a bit of a soft spot for hedgehogs. We've got a little hedgehog house- 

as well. But It was late at night, 

it was probably about half 10 I think, I went out just to try and do a bit of

watering . I was just rushing to, make sure things that were in pots had enough water to survive. And I nearly tripped over this hedgehog that was rolled up in a ball on the grass, and I was like, "Is it all right?"

'Cause it just wasn't moving. So I sat with it for probably about 10 minutes. But I did put a little bit of cat food out for it, and gradually you could see it just starting to come out.

The little nose came out and it started eating the biscuits. So it was like, that was a really good sign. I just put some water down as well, so it had a sniff there and then it just then trundled off. So I think it was all, all good. But it's just that little moment of, "Oh, is it okay?" But it's those encounters I think with nature- Yeah

as well that just keep inspiring me to keep going. I suppose it feels a bit like a Christmas. Like [00:23:00] how Christmas used to feel as you were a child. The excitement of having this unique connection with something out in nature. That just what keeps me, going and tops me back up to being like let's go.

Let's do some more work for wildlife and the planet and people. See what we can change." 

Erica Mackay: Absolutely. Love it. Hope everybody listening is inspired and you can't wait for our next episode. Becks, any last words you wanna share with our listeners?

Becks Neale: I think just to come with compassion and curiosity. And see what you get inspired to take away. I'm really looking forward to, hearing and chatting with all of our guests. How about for you? Is there anything you'd like our listeners to take away?

Erica Mackay: I think follow, to make sure you don't miss a single episode. And if you are a purpose led organization and would love to share your story, no matter how big or small it is, it can be I saved a hedgehog story all the way to I saved tons of waste food. Whatever it is, come talk to us, contact [00:24:00] us.

The links will be in the chat. And we'd love to hear from you, so please do that. The more guests, the better. Becks, it's been awesome chatting to you as usual, and I will see you on the next episode. 

Becks Neale: Have a great rest of the day, Erica. And we will see you soon. 

Erica Mackay: See you soon.

Becks Neale: Take care. 

Erica Mackay: Bye. 

Becks Neale: Bye. 

Outro: Thank you for listening to the Purpose Pinwheel podcast. And follow to make sure you don't miss the next episode.